For all novice and professional designers...

Discussion in 'FUN and Sharing Forum' started by Borpean, Jan 23, 2007.

  1. Borpean

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    I saw this the other day on Craig's List (www.craigslist.org) and thought to repost it -- if you are a designer, illustrator, or even a fine artist and have tried to find freelance work this should become of some interest to you.
    (this person went a little overboard but still interesting...)

    "Hello business-people please read!

    Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking "artists" for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs.
    More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

    But what they're NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

    To those who are "seeking artists", let me ask you;
    How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? ...none?

    More than likely, you don't know any. Otherwise, you wouldn't be posting on craigslist to find them.

    And this is not really a surprise.

    In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators.
    There are eleven times as many certified mechanics.
    There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

    So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free?
    Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

    Would you offer a neurosurgeon the "opportunity" to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor?
    (Maybe you could offer him "a few bucks" for "materials". What a deal!)

    Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

    If you answered "yes" to ANY of the above, you're obviously insane.

    If you answered "no", then kudos to you for living in the real world.

    But then tell me... why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

    Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen.
    As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person.
    In short, it makes you look like a twit.

    A few things you need to know;

    1. It is not a "great opportunity" for an artist to have his work seen on your
    car/'zine/website/bedroom wall, etc.
    It IS a "great opportunity" for YOU to have their work there.

    2. It is not clever to seek a "student" or "beginner" in an attempt to get
    work for free. It's ignorant and insulting.
    They may be "students", but that does not mean they don't deserve to be paid
    for their hard work.
    You were a "student" once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds
    with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real
    world?
    Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

    3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by
    other people, whether it's one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement.
    Neither is the right to add that work to their "portfolio".
    They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should.
    It's not compensation. It's their right, and it's a given.

    4. Stop thinking that you're giving them some great chance to work.
    Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for
    someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them.
    There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people
    who possess these skills.

    5. Students DO need "experience". But they do NOT need to get it by giving
    their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they
    need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or
    business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway.
    Do you think professional contractors list the "experience" they got
    while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother's house when they were
    seventeen?
    If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would
    be able to pay for the services it received.
    The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned
    in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

    6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.)
    Some will ask you to "submit work for consideration". They may even be posing
    as some sort of "contest".
    These are almost always scams.
    They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the
    "contest", or be "chosen" for the gig, and find what they like most.
    They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who
    works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of
    their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications
    to it, and claim it as their own.
    You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.
    The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads.
    This is speculative, or "spec", work. It's risky at best, and a complete
    scam at worst.
    I urge you to avoid it, completely.
    For more information on this subject, please visit www.no-spec.com.

    So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are "spec" gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

    And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free... please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you're accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.


    Please copy and repost daily so that our profession may be respected."

    - Originally posted by job-267155638@craigslist.or
  2. Chris

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    Boy do they make some really good points in this. Thanks for sharing this Borpean.
  3. paperclip

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    Will have to agree. I see people posting this "great opportunities" all the time
  4. HardHead

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    Hee Hee

    Boy someone Pissd in this dudes cheerios LOL!!:image09:
  5. BWC

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    Hi everyone, I'm just returning here after a few years and thought an URGE to make this my first post back . . . and for good reasons . . . Everything in that letter is true. I would also urge you to print it out, or make a poster of it, and hang it on your wall as a daily reminder.
  6. ADThumbprint

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    Although loooong, the post makes some great points. Our son is a gifted artist and the first thing he ever did for someone else was for his middle school. They asked to use a logo he did for class on a shirt. He gave permission for shirts only and he was to get the first shirt. He's now 20 and his design is on a dozen of more items that the school charges for and he never received anything! He now has a great contract and does nothing without protecting his intellectual property.
  7. MasterDesign

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    on that note:
    [​IMG]
  8. Borpean

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    um... it's only funny 'cuz it's true.
  9. laughingbird

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    LOL!

    That is too funny!
    Man have I lived through some of those conversations.

    ... never thought about the car reply tho.
    Too funny!
  10. laughingbird

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    I even like the fact that Mr. Designer has a cool designer font for his sig.
    ... and the look on Mr. Designer's face while Mr. Car Salesman is talking is hilarious.
  11. Ohiosweetie

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    That's so funny!
  12. A Brown

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    I guess this is funny cuz it's true cuz Nurosurgeons, Certified Mechanics, and IT folks know better than to give away their services for free... singers (AI anyone?) actors, musicians and artists are so right brained and in dire need of attention they just open their coats and let the world see for free... buck up comrades.. don't be victims... be proud, be loud, be CAPTITALISTS...

    and as a sign upon this sermon... whic one of us got TLC for free?
  13. laughingbird

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    Mr. Brown...
    You speak in riddles.
  14. MasterDesign

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    :image20:
    Riddle

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A riddle is a statement or question having a double or veiled meaning, put forth as a puzzle to be solved. Riddles are of two types: enigmas, which are problems generally expressed in metaphorical or allegorical language that require ingenuity and careful thinking for their solution, and conundrums, which are questions relying for their effects on punning in either the question or the answer.

    That would make mr. Browns post, just a wierd question....
    :image31:MD
  15. KakeNjodi

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    i think maybe he is saying marc is a smart artist and getting paid for his work... i think... but it is all so confusing
  16. awalck

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    "and as a sign upon this sermon... whic one of us got TLC for free?"

    :image24: What?!
  17. laughingbird

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    ... uh.

    I did.



    :image28:
  18. awalck

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    Lol :)

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